[mpp]

Hello,

I thought I would start a new post to find out what people would suggest as an alternative to PhoneGnome specifically which ATA device and what service provider(s) to go with and why go that route. I know about the full service VoIP providers but am leaning towards not going that route.

Any and all input would be appreciated.

Thank you.

[PhoneBoy]

If you want something like PhoneGnone, you can always get a SPA3000, which is what the PhoneGnome uses. Of course, the integration with your existing PSTN line won't be quite as easy to configure as it is with PhoneGnome, but you get complete control.

[mpp]

Originally Posted by PhoneBoy

If you want something like PhoneGnone, you can always get a SPA3000, which is what the PhoneGnome uses. Of course, the integration with your existing PSTN line won't be quite as easy to configure as it is with PhoneGnome, but you get complete control.

Thank you for that Phoneboy. Assuming you go the SPA3000 route what service would you team that up with that?

[PhoneBoy]

Since I'm associated a bit too closely with Voxilla, I am not going to directly comment on that. I can suggest looking through the forums and seeing what people are using with the SPA3000.

[DracoFelis]

Originally Posted by mpp

Assuming you go the SPA3000 route what service would you team that up with that?

I would recommend this mix:

Free services:

1) http://www.sipbroker.com
The free "SIP Broker" service will let you make calls to MANY VoIP users around the world "for free".

2) http://www.freeworlddialup.com/
Free World Dialup is a free VoIP to VoIP service. It integrates well with SIP Broker, and should make it easy for others in the VoIP community to call you "for free".

3) http://ipkall.com
This will give you a free (to you) inbound (WA state) phone number (the easiest way to use this number, is to forward it to your FWD account), that allows people with normal phones to call your VoIP adapter.

4) If you are really feeling feisty, you could add in http://www.e164.org/
e164.org is a service that will publish any normal telco number you have (including your IPKall.com number, above), so that anyone who uses "ENUM" and VoIP can route their calls to you for free. Really, this is just a public "automated" way to publish the info that your phone number is only one way to reach you, and that you can also be called by such-and-so VoIP address (for example, you could publish that you can also be reached via your FWD account).
NOTE: The free "SIP Broker" service (above) will let you dial phone numbers listed in e164.org (via your VoIP adapter), and connect for free!

5) And of course, any other free services you feel like adding later...

Commercial services:

I am not going to list specific providers under the "commercial" catagory. However, here are the types of commercial services you might want to consider:

1) You probably want at least one "Pay as you go" (i.e. no monthly fee, only pay for the minutes you use) provider for making outbound calls to the normal telco.
NOTE: Some PAYGO plans charge you a fee when you make an outbound "toll free" call via your PAYGO account. If your plan charges like this, just setup your adapter to auto-route 1-800/888/877/866-xxx-xxxx numbers via "Free World Dialup" (which will connect you to USA toll free number FOR FREE). That will nicely bypass the "toll free surcharge" some PAYGO plans have (as you then won't be using your PAYGO plan to complete "toll free" calls, you will be using your free FWD account)...

2) If you call a lot, you probably want to also have a "unlimited" (outbound) calling plan from some provider (i.e. a plan you pay a fixed amount for each month, and then don't have to pay for each minute used). However, only do this option if you really call enough to justify the monthly fee (otherwise just use PAYGO for all of your outbound calling). If you do call enough to justify getting an "unlimited plan", you would still probably want a PAYGO plan (above), as a "backup service", in case your "unlimited plan" is down for any reason.
NOTE: Your setup will be more "reliable", if you get your PAYGO and "unlimited" plans from DIFFERENT companies (because there is a good chance that when one VoIP company goes down, the other one will still be up, thereby allowing you to make a call when needed)!

3) If you have a lot of inbound calling from a specific area, you might want to consider getting a phone number for that area. This will generally run several $$$ a month (and some areas are more costly than others), so the cost is really only justified if you really feel you "need" to be called "for free" from a specific area.

4) Another thing you might want to consider, is a so-called "toll free" number. This makes you "a local call" to pretty much everyone! If you hunt around, you can get toll free numbers for only a few dollars a month + some "per minute of use" charge. Since the monthly fee is often less than an "unlimited local number" (#3, above), a "toll free" number can actually be CHEAPER if you don't get a lot of calls. For example, the "per minute fee" on my 888 number is only $0.02/min! For that price, it is a CHEAP WAY to enable the whole family to easily "call home" when they are "traveling" (and "traveling" in the case includes visiting the major city a few miles over the county line)...

FYI: If you really work at it, you can put a LOT on an SPA3000. However, you have to use some clever forwarding tricks to put as much on the adapter as I have. FWIW this is what I currently have "crammed into" my SPA-3000:

1) Free World Dialup (in via forwarding to my SIP Broker alias, and out via a SPA3000 "gateway" slot)

2) SIP Broker (out via a dial-plan trick documented on the SIP Broker website, and in via a SIP Broker "alias" forwarded directly to my adapter)

3) An IPKall.com number (in via forwarding directly to my adapter)

4) My other free VoIP account (in via forwarding to my SIP Broker alias, and out via that provider's "peering" with SIP Broker)

5) A commercial provider having toll free numbers and PAYGO calling (in/out normally, as I set this provider as the "Line 1" (default) provider for my SPA3000). This is obviously the account I have my 888 phone number with...

6) My unlimited outbound provider is on a "gateway" slot. Since this commercial VoIP account doesn't do "inbound calls", I have no need to setup an arrangement to accept calls from that provider (all I need is to be able to make calls, and the 4 SPA3000 "gateway" slots work well for that purpose).

7) Likewise my commercial PAYGO "backup" account is also on an SPA3000 "gateway" slot, and again I make no effort to accept inbound calls on that account (as my account with that provider doesn't include the optional "extra charge" inbound calling option anyway)...

[mpp]

Originally Posted by PhoneBoy

Since I'm associated a bit too closely with Voxilla, I am not going to directly comment on that. I can suggest looking through the forums and seeing what people are using with the SPA3000.

Thanks for the response Phoneboy. Ok I'll look at the forums and see what people are using with the SPA3000.

[mpp]

Originally Posted by DracoFelis

I would recommend this mix:

Free services:

1) http://www.sipbroker.com
The free "SIP Broker" service will let you make calls to MANY VoIP users around the world "for free".

2) http://www.freeworlddialup.com/
Free World Dialup is a free VoIP to VoIP service. It integrates well with SIP Broker, and should make it easy for others in the VoIP community to call you "for free".

3) http://ipkall.com
This will give you a free (to you) inbound (WA state) phone number (the easiest way to use this number, is to forward it to your FWD account), that allows people with normal phones to call your VoIP adapter.

4) If you are really feeling feisty, you could add in http://www.e164.org/
e164.org is a service that will publish any normal telco number you have (including your IPKall.com number, above), so that anyone who uses "ENUM" and VoIP can route their calls to you for free. Really, this is just a public "automated" way to publish the info that your phone number is only one way to reach you, and that you can also be called by such-and-so VoIP address (for example, you could publish that you can also be reached via your FWD account).
NOTE: The free "SIP Broker" service (above) will let you dial phone numbers listed in e164.org (via your VoIP adapter), and connect for free!

5) And of course, any other free services you feel like adding later...

Commercial services:

I am not going to list specific providers under the "commercial" catagory. However, here are the types of commercial services you might want to consider:

1) You probably want at least one "Pay as you go" (i.e. no monthly fee, only pay for the minutes you use) provider for making outbound calls to the normal telco.
NOTE: Some PAYGO plans charge you a fee when you make an outbound "toll free" call via your PAYGO account. If your plan charges like this, just setup your adapter to auto-route 1-800/888/877/866-xxx-xxxx numbers via "Free World Dialup" (which will connect you to USA toll free number FOR FREE). That will nicely bypass the "toll free surcharge" some PAYGO plans have (as you then won't be using your PAYGO plan to complete "toll free" calls, you will be using your free FWD account)...

2) If you call a lot, you probably want to also have a "unlimited" (outbound) calling plan from some provider (i.e. a plan you pay a fixed amount for each month, and then don't have to pay for each minute used). However, only do this option if you really call enough to justify the monthly fee (otherwise just use PAYGO for all of your outbound calling). If you do call enough to justify getting an "unlimited plan", you would still probably want a PAYGO plan (above), as a "backup service", in case your "unlimited plan" is down for any reason.
NOTE: Your setup will be more "reliable", if you get your PAYGO and "unlimited" plans from DIFFERENT companies (because there is a good chance that when one VoIP company goes down, the other one will still be up, thereby allowing you to make a call when needed)!

3) If you have a lot of inbound calling from a specific area, you might want to consider getting a phone number for that area. This will generally run several $$$ a month (and some areas are more costly than others), so the cost is really only justified if you really feel you "need" to be called "for free" from a specific area.

4) Another thing you might want to consider, is a so-called "toll free" number. This makes you "a local call" to pretty much everyone! If you hunt around, you can get toll free numbers for only a few dollars a month + some "per minute of use" charge. Since the monthly fee is often less than an "unlimited local number" (#3, above), a "toll free" number can actually be CHEAPER if you don't get a lot of calls. For example, the "per minute fee" on my 888 number is only $0.02/min! For that price, it is a CHEAP WAY to enable the whole family to easily "call home" when they are "traveling" (and "traveling" in the case includes visiting the major city a few miles over the county line)...

FYI: If you really work at it, you can put a LOT on an SPA3000. However, you have to use some clever forwarding tricks to put as much on the adapter as I have. FWIW this is what I currently have "crammed into" my SPA-3000:

1) Free World Dialup (in via forwarding to my SIP Broker alias, and out via a SPA3000 "gateway" slot)

2) SIP Broker (out via a dial-plan trick documented on the SIP Broker website, and in via a SIP Broker "alias" forwarded directly to my adapter)

3) An IPKall.com number (in via forwarding directly to my adapter)

4) My other free VoIP account (in via forwarding to my SIP Broker alias, and out via that provider's "peering" with SIP Broker)

5) A commercial provider having toll free numbers and PAYGO calling (in/out normally, as I set this provider as the "Line 1" (default) provider for my SPA3000). This is obviously the account I have my 888 phone number with...

6) My unlimited outbound provider is on a "gateway" slot. Since this commercial VoIP account doesn't do "inbound calls", I have no need to setup an arrangement to accept calls from that provider (all I need is to be able to make calls, and the 4 SPA3000 "gateway" slots work well for that purpose).

7) Likewise my commercial PAYGO "backup" account is also on an SPA3000 "gateway" slot, and again I make no effort to accept inbound calls on that account (as my account with that provider doesn't include the optional "extra charge" inbound calling option anyway)...

Thanks DracoFelis ... lots of great detail. You've given me much information to mull over. If I could ask you why did you go SPA3000 over PhoneGnome?

[asethi]

I bought PhoneGnome and an SPA 2002. Here is my comparison of the two units (I am not a highly technical user)

Phone Gnome:
1. Easy to configure for many service providers.
2. Auto configures and serves as an extension of your current phone line.
3. You can just use the phone for making all your calls. It switches to local carrier automatically and uses the internet long distance carriers when dialling a long distance and international numbers
4. You can block international long distance and/or domestic long distance from the admin console and also choose different service providers for these calls.
5. Switching providers is very simple via web.
6. Can call other Phone Gnome numbers all over the world for free (since it will route the call via internet automatically)
7. You can have your own phone book online and can call any of the number just with a click of the mouse.

Sipura 2002.
1. Not easy to configure.
2. I tried to configure three providers using the Voxilla configuration wizard but could only configure one one provider at the first try. I got the dial tone and was able to make a call to Australia very easly. The sound quality was Excellent. The second provider would not give me a dial tone. The third provider, I could configure after a few attempts and get dial tone, but when I dial any number ir will not connect and the phone would go dead. When I check the account of the provider, I see a charge for one minutes for all the calls I tried..
3. It has two lines and one can only configure one provider per line. To switch providers you have to switch the lines. If you want to configure a third provider, you have to re-configure one of the lines.
4. Not integrated with your local phone so will have to use the service providers for all your calls local or long distance.
5. No way to block international or long distance calls other than chnaging the dial plan string.

I am keeping the PhoneGnome and returning the SPA 2002.

[DracoFelis]

Originally Posted by mpp

Thanks DracoFelis ... lots of great detail. You've given me much information to mull over. If I could ask you why did you go SPA3000 over PhoneGnome?

1) I'm a "power user" that likes to do things "my way". And even though the SPA3000 is a pain to setup initially, it gives the "power user" more control.

2) The SPA3000 is a little cheaper than a PhoneGnome.

3) And perhaps the most important reason, is that I purchased my SPA3000 a little before the PhoneGnome service came out (or at least before Voxilla.com was selling PhoneGnomes).

[DracoFelis]

Originally Posted by asethi

I bought PhoneGnome and an SPA 2002. Here is my comparison of the two units (I am not a highly technical user)

Apples and Oranges. If you want a FAIR comparison between the two, your really need to compare the PhoneGnome to the SPA3000 (not the LESS POWERFUL and MORE LIMITED SPA-2002)!

NOTE: While I haven't personally used a PhoneGnome (yet), I feel I can compare the features (as I do make a lot of use of my SPA3000, and I've read about what the PhoneGnome service can and can't do).

As far as I can tell, there is very little that a PhoneGnome can do, that a "properly configured" SPA3000 (with the proper mix of free and commercial VoIP services) can't also be made to do. And that includes such "advanced features" as automatically detecting that the call you are dialing can be reach for free over the internet (you use the ENUM features of the free "SIP Broker" service to get that ability). But in almost all such cases, the PhoneGnome will pretty much set this up for you, whereas the SPA-3000 user has to "work at it" to get that feature.

At the same time, the SPA3000 also has some "advanced" features available (if you choose to set them up) that you just don't get with PhoneGnome. For example, a SPA-3000 gives you a lot of control to setup which (outbound) provider is auto-picked based upon what number (pattern) you are calling. OTOH the PhoneGnome (last I heard) only auto-selects between your "international" and "within your country" providers (not, for example, letting you setup the adapter to auto-choose between different "international" providers, based upon which country you are calling, thereby letting you automatically get "the cheapest rates").

Which is why I say that the SPA3000 is the "power users" adapter, whereas the PhoneGnome (which is much more "plug and play" in setting it up) may very well be "the adapter for everyone else". Because I don't see a "power user" loosing much in the way of features by going with an SPA-3000 (note I said SPA-3000, not SPA-2002).

However, any "normal user" just won't have the patience to learn how to do all that setup work (to use a SPA3000 anywhere near "its full potential"). So for "normal users" (people who just want the technology to work, without spending the time to learn the details of how), the PhoneGnome (with its "plug and play" setup) is probably a better choice.