[PhoneBoy]

I have both SPA3000s and a PhoneGnome. They both serve somewhat different purposes for me.

[mpp]

Originally Posted by asethi

I bought PhoneGnome and an SPA 2002. Here is my comparison of the two units (I am not a highly technical user)

Phone Gnome:
1. Easy to configure for many service providers.
2. Auto configures and serves as an extension of your current phone line.
3. You can just use the phone for making all your calls. It switches to local carrier automatically and uses the internet long distance carriers when dialling a long distance and international numbers
4. You can block international long distance and/or domestic long distance from the admin console and also choose different service providers for these calls.
5. Switching providers is very simple via web.
6. Can call other Phone Gnome numbers all over the world for free (since it will route the call via internet automatically)
7. You can have your own phone book online and can call any of the number just with a click of the mouse.

Sipura 2002.
1. Not easy to configure.
2. I tried to configure three providers using the Voxilla configuration wizard but could only configure one one provider at the first try. I got the dial tone and was able to make a call to Australia very easly. The sound quality was Excellent. The second provider would not give me a dial tone. The third provider, I could configure after a few attempts and get dial tone, but when I dial any number ir will not connect and the phone would go dead. When I check the account of the provider, I see a charge for one minutes for all the calls I tried..
3. It has two lines and one can only configure one provider per line. To switch providers you have to switch the lines. If you want to configure a third provider, you have to re-configure one of the lines.
4. Not integrated with your local phone so will have to use the service providers for all your calls local or long distance.
5. No way to block international or long distance calls other than chnaging the dial plan string.

I am keeping the PhoneGnome and returning the SPA 2002.

Thanks for your input asethi. I don't know whether you are aware or not but the PhoneGnome is based on the Sipura SPA 3000. It would be unfair to compare the SPA 2000 to the SPA 3000 in features.

Point taken on the hard to get the SPA 2000 configured initially. If I understand you correctly you are saying that getting into VoIP is going to be a much better experience if you start with the PhoneGnome than it is to handle the need to set up the SPA 2000 unit from scratch.

So being a PhoneGnome user I'd love to ask you a couple of questions if I may:
- Since PhoneGnome seems to marry your PSTN phone number what happens if you change it?
- for that matter ... can you change your phone number whenever you want without having implications on PhoneGnome?
- Since PhoneGnome seems to do most functions in conjunction with their website ... if the company or website ceases ... will PhoneGnome still be able to operate
- if you are on a PSTN call and a VOIP call comes in for you or vice versa... can PhoneGnome handle that

I look forward to your response.

[mpp]

Originally Posted by DracoFelis

1) I'm a "power user" that likes to do things "my way". And even though the SPA3000 is a pain to setup initially, it gives the "power user" more control.

2) The SPA3000 is a little cheaper than a PhoneGnome.

3) And perhaps the most important reason, is that I purchased my SPA3000 a little before the PhoneGnome service came out (or at least before Voxilla.com was selling PhoneGnomes).

I'm with you there in complete control ... I think that is very important to have. With PhoneGnome they have a series of services that they have "tested" with the PhoneGnome to use whereas I don't see any reason why any service should not work with the SPA3000.

The street price of SPA3000 is $86 or $87. The street price of the PhoneGnome is $119.00. This is true. I read an article that said that PhoneGnome was offering to modify the SPA3000 for $35.00 but I guess PhoneGnome decided not to offer that for long as it is not listed on their site anymore.

Your third point is interesting ... are you saying that if Voxilla had the PhoneGnome available when you were looking at the SPA3000 you may well have the PhoneGnome instead of the SPA3000?

Thanks for your input and looking forward to your response.

[mpp]

Originally Posted by PhoneBoy

I have both SPA3000s and a PhoneGnome. They both serve somewhat different purposes for me.

That is an interesting comment PhoneBoy. Would you care to elaborate?

[mpp]

Originally Posted by DracoFelis

Apples and Oranges. If you want a FAIR comparison between the two, your really need to compare the PhoneGnome to the SPA3000 (not the LESS POWERFUL and MORE LIMITED SPA-2002)!

NOTE: While I haven't personally used a PhoneGnome (yet), I feel I can compare the features (as I do make a lot of use of my SPA3000, and I've read about what the PhoneGnome service can and can't do).

As far as I can tell, there is very little that a PhoneGnome can do, that a "properly configured" SPA3000 (with the proper mix of free and commercial VoIP services) can't also be made to do. And that includes such "advanced features" as automatically detecting that the call you are dialing can be reach for free over the internet (you use the ENUM features of the free "SIP Broker" service to get that ability). But in almost all such cases, the PhoneGnome will pretty much set this up for you, whereas the SPA-3000 user has to "work at it" to get that feature.

At the same time, the SPA3000 also has some "advanced" features available (if you choose to set them up) that you just don't get with PhoneGnome. For example, a SPA-3000 gives you a lot of control to setup which (outbound) provider is auto-picked based upon what number (pattern) you are calling. OTOH the PhoneGnome (last I heard) only auto-selects between your "international" and "within your country" providers (not, for example, letting you setup the adapter to auto-choose between different "international" providers, based upon which country you are calling, thereby letting you automatically get "the cheapest rates").

Which is why I say that the SPA3000 is the "power users" adapter, whereas the PhoneGnome (which is much more "plug and play" in setting it up) may very well be "the adapter for everyone else". Because I don't see a "power user" loosing much in the way of features by going with an SPA-3000 (note I said SPA-3000, not SPA-2002).

However, any "normal user" just won't have the patience to learn how to do all that setup work (to use a SPA3000 anywhere near "its full potential"). So for "normal users" (people who just want the technology to work, without spending the time to learn the details of how), the PhoneGnome (with its "plug and play" setup) is probably a better choice.

Getting to select the phone service provider by selecting it before you dial is a powerfull feature. After all ... it will be by having free or cheap phone rates that one will pay for the cost of the ATA.

So you are suggesting that if someone was to take the time and have the patience he or she could have all the features that you would get by going the PhoneGnome route? In your case did you find that the documentation that comes with the SPA3000 sufficient to convey the knowledge to you to control and configure the device or was it a case of trial and error?

Look forward to your response.

[mberlant]

There are hundreds of man-years of experimentation and experience contained here in these forums that are not available from any other repository I have come across. You are well on your way to building the knowledge base you would need to go the do-it-yourself route, but there is no substitute for sweat equity.

[DracoFelis]

Originally Posted by mpp

So you are suggesting that if someone was to take the time and have the patience he or she could have all the features that you would get by going the PhoneGnome route?

In my personal experience, you can get almost the same features on the SPA3000 (again, with "enough time and patience") , but there will always be some subtle differences. For example, here is one PhoneGnome feature that an SPA-3000 can't mimic exactly. PhoneBoy (who owns a PhoneGnome) once mentiond that his PhoneGnome will automatically try to dial numbers in this order:

1) Free call, if PhoneGnome detects it as such.

2) If not a free call, use his specified commercial VoIP account.

3) If all else fails, PhoneGnome will automatically use your telco/PSTN line for the call (and tell you that fact).

OTOH this is the closest immitation of that, which I know you can do with an SPA3000, is:

1) By properly setting your VoIP adapter up with the free SIP Broker service ( http://www.sipbroker.com ), the adapter can try to auto-detect if the call is free, and automatically give the call to you for free.

2) If the call is not free, SIP Broker can redirect the call to the (default) "Line 1" provider you have programmed into your SPA3000 (i.e. automatically send the call onto your commercial VoIP account).

3) But if both of the above fail, the call just won't connect. If you then want to try dialing out the PSTN line for the call, you have to MANUALLY hang up your phone and redial with a prefix (of your choice, many people like "#9" as their PTSN prefix) to tell the SPA3000 to force the call out via the PTSN line.

i.e. with the SPA3000 immitation, you don't get automatic fallback to your PSTN line (as the last attempted way to make the call). You can always redial the phone call via the PSTN line access code you chose (and setup in your SPA-3000), but the last level of "fallback" isn't automatic...

But as already mentioned, you can also make an SPA3000 do some "tricks" that you don't appear to be able to make a PhoneGnome do. So it's a trade off. The SPA-3000 can be made to do a fair immitation of a PhoneGnome, but it's work to setup that way, and the immitation is not always exact. So if your really want a PhoneGnome, just buy a PhoneGnome. But if you like tweaking things to do them "your way" you might like the SPA-3000.

Originally Posted by mpp

In your case did you find that the documentation that comes with the SPA3000 sufficient to convey the knowledge to you to control and configure the device or was it a case of trial and error?

The docs are useful. If you have an SPA3000 (or even trying to figure out if it's "too much work" to make it do what you want), I would highly recommend downloading the PDF docs from the Sipura web site. However, the docs (while useful) are far from complete!

As a result, it was a combo of "trial and error" and the forums (including the Sipura support forum here at Voxilla) that really made the difference...

[mpp]

Originally Posted by mberlant

There are hundreds of man-years of experimentation and experience contained here in these forums that are not available from any other repository I have come across. You are well on your way to building the knowledge base you would need to go the do-it-yourself route, but there is no substitute for sweat equity.

Thanks for your encouragement mberlant. Good point on the man years. So if I understand you correctly ... you would put a checkmark next to the SPA3000 over the PhoneGnome?

[mpp]

Originally Posted by DracoFelis

In my personal experience, you can get almost the same features on the SPA3000 (again, with "enough time and patience") , but there will always be some subtle differences. For example, here is one PhoneGnome feature that an SPA-3000 can't mimic exactly. PhoneBoy (who owns a PhoneGnome) once mentiond that his PhoneGnome will automatically try to dial numbers in this order:

1) Free call, if PhoneGnome detects it as such.

2) If not a free call, use his specified commercial VoIP account.

3) If all else fails, PhoneGnome will automatically use your telco/PSTN line for the call (and tell you that fact).

OTOH this is the closest immitation of that, which I know you can do with an SPA3000, is:

1) By properly setting your VoIP adapter up with the free SIP Broker service ( http://www.sipbroker.com ), the adapter can try to auto-detect if the call is free, and automatically give the call to you for free.

2) If the call is not free, SIP Broker can redirect the call to the (default) "Line 1" provider you have programmed into your SPA3000 (i.e. automatically send the call onto your commercial VoIP account).

3) But if both of the above fail, the call just won't connect. If you then want to try dialing out the PSTN line for the call, you have to MANUALLY hang up your phone and redial with a prefix (of your choice, many people like "#9" as their PTSN prefix) to tell the SPA3000 to force the call out via the PTSN line.

i.e. with the SPA3000 immitation, you don't get automatic fallback to your PSTN line (as the last attempted way to make the call). You can always redial the phone call via the PSTN line access code you chose (and setup in your SPA-3000), but the last level of "fallback" isn't automatic...

But as already mentioned, you can also make an SPA3000 do some "tricks" that you don't appear to be able to make a PhoneGnome do. So it's a trade off. The SPA-3000 can be made to do a fair immitation of a PhoneGnome, but it's work to setup that way, and the immitation is not always exact. So if your really want a PhoneGnome, just buy a PhoneGnome. But if you like tweaking things to do them "your way" you might like the SPA-3000.

The docs are useful. If you have an SPA3000 (or even trying to figure out if it's "too much work" to make it do what you want), I would highly recommend downloading the PDF docs from the Sipura web site. However, the docs (while useful) are far from complete!

As a result, it was a combo of "trial and error" and the forums (including the Sipura support forum here at Voxilla) that really made the difference...

Thanks dracofelis. That was an excellent description of how the callout feature on a PhoneGnome works vs the SPA3000.

At this point I don't know enought about the PhoneGnome or the SPA3000 in order to make an intelligent decision. Thanks to posts from people like you I am understanding more and more about both. From my perspective as of this moment I like the work that the PhoneGnome seems to do for you to save you from having to set it up yourself. On the other hand I like the power to be able to choose which phone service I want as rates of one to one country may vary greatly compared to the other.

From what you are saying you will need to know the documentation, get input from the Voxilla forms, and a bit or trial and error to get done what you want to do. This certainly sounds like a challenging task.

However once the SPA3000 is setup you can use it on another line ... what happens when you try to put the PhoneGnome on another line???

[asethi]

Originally Posted by mpp

Thanks for your input asethi. I don't know whether you are aware or not but the PhoneGnome is based on the Sipura SPA 3000. It would be unfair to compare the SPA 2000 to the SPA 3000 in features.

Point taken on the hard to get the SPA 2000 configured initially. If I understand you correctly you are saying that getting into VoIP is going to be a much better experience if you start with the PhoneGnome than it is to handle the need to set up the SPA 2000 unit from scratch.

So being a PhoneGnome user I'd love to ask you a couple of questions if I may:
- Since PhoneGnome seems to marry your PSTN phone number what happens if you change it?
- for that matter ... can you change your phone number whenever you want without having implications on PhoneGnome?
- Since PhoneGnome seems to do most functions in conjunction with their website ... if the company or website ceases ... will PhoneGnome still be able to operate
- if you are on a PSTN call and a VOIP call comes in for you or vice versa... can PhoneGnome handle that

I look forward to your response.

Hi mpp,

Here are the answers according to me (perhaps someone from the PhoneGnome tech support team can confirm these)

If one changes their PSTN phone number, that will be when they move to a different location I presume, one will then have to reconfigure the phonegnome to work with the new PSTN number.

If the PhoneGnome website is down, the phonegnome should still work. Only thing that will not function is your ability to switch the service providers via the web site. I use the web site to change my service providers and to place calls with one click dialing. If there is no need to change the service provider before a call, I do not need to login to the website.

When I am on a call (PSTN or VOIP) and I have another call coming, I can switch to the incoming call by putting the current call on hold. This is possible due to teh Call waiting feature supported by PhoneGnome.

I like the ease of use that PhoneGnome offers. Changing of providers before a call and to have a different provider for long distance and international calls is very useful.