Porting number out of BV

[Jeep4JB]

I called BV today to discuss the possibility of porting my number out. Just as I thought, if you receive the number from them, they are not obligated to allow you to port the number out since they don't have carrier status and therefore do not have to follow LNP. If you ported the number into BV, it's your number so they have to let you port it out.

Now I'm trying to figure out the best way to get a local (not toll free) number that I'll never have to change. I'm considering signing up with the local phone company (SBC) long enough to get my number ported out. I'm just wondering if they're starting to force you to have ther service a minimum amount of time before porting it. Anyone more familiar with all of this and can advise? TIA!

[alexdds]

You may not be able to port it into broadvoice. Not every number is accepted by broadvoice or their partners.
Check with Jeff Nelson jnelson@broadvoice.com to see if you can take your SBC number there.

[trixter]

Originally Posted by Jeep4JB

I called BV today to discuss the possibility of porting my number out. Just as I thought, if you receive the number from them, they are not obligated to allow you to port the number out since they don't have carrier status and therefore do not have to follow LNP. If you ported the number into BV, it's your number so they have to let you port it out.

Read their TOS, if you port a number in thy may or may not let you port it out. They can decide its a cool number and you lose it.

http://www.broadvoice.com/terms.html
1.10 Number Transfer on Service Termination
BroadVoice may, solely at the Company's discretion, release any telephone number that was ported in to BroadVoice by you and used in connection with your Service to your new service provider, if such new service provider is able to accept such number, upon your termination of the Service, and provided (i) your account has been terminated; (ii) your BroadVoice account is completely current including payment for all charges and disconnect fees; and (iii) you request the transfer upon terminating your account. BroadVoice will not transfer or release telephone numbers that it has assigned for use in conjunction with your Service.

[mberlant]

Despite what the ToS might say, FCC rules trump those words. This sword cuts both ways, though, and may prevent you from porting out a number that you ported in or may prevent you from porting in a number that you may ultimately have been able to port out.

The rules are the same for porting in and porting out. When you are contemplating porting in a phone number both the losing carrier and the gaining carrier (BroadVoice's DID service provider) must have operations in the Rate Center where the number was originally assigned. Likewise, when you are trying to port out a number that you have previously ported in to a VoIP service provider both the losing provider and the gaining provider must have operations in the Rate Center where the number was originally assigned.

Here are two examples. Let's say you live in Mountain View, NJ. You want to port your Verizon phone number to BroadVoice. Since BV and Verizon both have operations in Mountain View and since your Verizon phone number is actually assigned to the Mountain View Rate Center, you can successfully port this number to BV. Later on, you decide to leave BroadVoice and join VoicePulse. Unfortunately, VP doesn't have operations in the Mountain View Rate Center, so they cannot accept that Verizon number you ported in to BV.

Now, let's say you live in Dover, NJ. You sign up for BV and want to port your Verizon number in. No dice, this time, because BV does not have any operations in the Dover Rate Center. So, you reduce your Verizon service to Lifeline rate and keep that line for incoming calls only, while taking a Morristown number (local to Dover) from BV. Later on, you decide to leave BroadVoice and join VoicePulse. You can't take your Morristown number with you, but you can now port your Verizon Dover number to VP because they do have operations in Dover Rate Center.

[trixter]

Originally Posted by mberlant

Despite what the ToS might say, FCC rules trump those words. This sword cuts both ways, though, and may prevent you from porting out a number that you ported in or may prevent you from porting in a number that you may ultimately have been able to port out.

The FCC rules are unclear in this area as broadvoice is not a registered 214 company with the FCC. As such they are a private company. So basically the underlying carrier ports your number to broadvoice, who as the customer owns it. It would then be the 'customer' ie broadvoice that would have say if it gets ported out to 'someone else'.

I havent seen the FCC state that non registered companies like broadvoice have to follow those rules specifically. They just finished saying that if you are VoIP and connect to the PSTN you have to do CALEA and stuff, it took a special ruling to say that the rules that applied to all registered companies have to apply to VoIP companies that arent registered, so it stands to reason by simple logic that it will take another ruling on number porting in this regard.

If you have a link off fcc.gov for example where they did rule that porting applies to companies that arent registered 214 (form number you file with the FCC even if you are a CLEC or IXC or whatever) that this applies I would be interested in seeing it.

Originally Posted by mberlant

Here are two examples. Let's say you live in Mountain View, NJ. You want to port your Verizon phone number to BroadVoice. Since BV and Verizon both have operations in Mountain View and since your Verizon phone number is actually assigned to the Mountain View Rate Center, you can successfully port this number to BV. Later on, you decide to leave BroadVoice and join VoicePulse. Unfortunately, VP doesn't have operations in the Mountain View Rate Center, so they cannot accept that Verizon number you ported in to BV.

For real phone companies you connect at the tandem not the individual rate centers, as such its far easier to get around this. Northern NJ has I believe 1 tandem (might be two, but I think its only one). The FCC/NANPA prohibits changing rate centers once an exchange is assigned, as this would cause many many problems with billing, a number that used to be local is now one of those magic NJ numbers that costs $5/call (to get those exchanges look in the star ledger for apartment listings that give what appears to be a normal 201/973 number but state (per FTC rules) that it costs $5/call).

Originally Posted by mberlant

Now, let's say you live in Dover, NJ.

I have more sense than that

You know there is a problem when you can goto an ATM in dover and get money in multiples of $5. As if people may not have a full $20 in their account to use the ATM. The diner by the overpass (I forget its name) and car dealers though isnt that bad. Gah, I miss jersey diners.

All kidding aside have you actually tried this? Verizon can, due to the tandem access (most of which they own in that area) cover all of NJ via the tandem even if they dont have switches in a given rate center. Access charges are paid largely based on the rate center that the calls go between, and there is no requirement to have physical access.

They may make a business decision to not support this type of transfer, but I know its technically possible. Part of the reason that I am signing NDAs with various companies and viewing contracts is becuase I am in the process of forming a national phone company. I know that I can get numbers in any rate center, and route traffic with virtually anyone in north america (incl canada) with only 1 system in 1 location. I dont have to have a full on national network.

If I as a much smaller company than verizon do not have to have equipment in every rate center, I am certain they do not either.

Originally Posted by mberlant

You sign up for BV and want to port your Verizon number in. No dice, this time, because BV does not have any operations in the Dover Rate Center.

Do you actually think that Broadvoice has equipment in every rate center they have numbers in? I dont think they are that large nor have that much equipment. It also is not needed, and for their needs would be excessively wasteful. You can get ports for $4/mo with SS7 access (so number pooling, porting, etc are available). This is *more* access than broadvoice actually has (why number porting is done via the underlying carriers not broadvoice directly). My guess is that broadvoice is using something closer to the GBLX contracts for straight VoIP reselling (although that contract is a moot point now, odds are they signed similar ones with other companies, its just that I have read the GBLX one ...)

The cost is closer to $2/port. Since multiple people can share the same port through out a month it becomes profitable. You would have to use the Erlang B algorithm or something similar to see what port count is acceptable for you personally, but anywhere from 4:1-10:1 is normally what happens. That means that it costs each subscriber $0.20-$0.50/mo in PSTN interconnection plus per minute charges, which are directly passed (with profit) to the end user.

Originally Posted by mberlant

So, you reduce your Verizon service to Lifeline rate and keep that line for incoming calls only, while taking a Morristown number (local to Dover) from BV.

Woo go live in the hollow! Its almost as bad as dover.

[datarax]

Originally Posted by trixter

Part of the reason that I am signing NDAs with various companies and viewing contracts is because I am in the process of forming a national phone company.

What's that Trixtel? Can you get me some did's in Newark, NJ and Union NJ? Go ahead, if you had fun with Dover and Morristown I'm sure you have something to say about Newark. :lol: Also, would be glad to help you burn up some of the $35,000 of minutes every month from GBLX. I'm sure you can't disclose the rate. I signed a nda with stanaphone and the did's were a one time low purchase and sub penny per minute incoming. Where is your sip server going to be? Dover? Morristown? Is it a voip phone company or a regular clec?

On another note, I tested 12 voip providers since may 6th and have found Nufone the best. I emailed them to find out why they were so much better than everyone else(imho) and asked if they were a clec. Yes they are.

[trixter]

No I wont be based out of NJ, I dont live there anymore. Havent for several years. At least newark has studio 1 (or did).

You paid stanaphone for inbound or they paid you?

Numbers are given free from NANPA although you have to register it in BRRDS (national database accessed typically via SS7), there are companies that will do that for $35 first year and less each additional year, per exchange (or sub exchange if you get number pooling). You obvioulsy can get your own network set up to do that, but that is more costly on a smal lscale.

[datarax]

Originally Posted by trixter

You paid stanaphone for inbound or they paid you?

Well, I signed the nda agreement, but never finished the deal. I tested their retail service for a while. They susupended their wholesale business for a reason I do not know. Their wholesale per minute price is (can't say that) a little higher than what I found elsewhere so it's just as well. On the other hand, I may give BV a break by railing on simpletelecom soon. Oh, don't get me started with them. It seems that these voip companies have never heard of the word respect or courtesy.

[trixter]

Originally Posted by datarax

Well, I signed the nda agreement, but never finished the deal. I tested their retail service for a while. They susupended their wholesale business for a reason I do not know. Their wholesale per minute price is (can't say that) a little higher than what I found elsewhere so it's just as well. On the other hand, I may give BV a break by railing on simpletelecom soon. Oh, don't get me started with them. It seems that these voip companies have never heard of the word respect or courtesy.

I didnt want to know the rate (or anything else covered by the NDA) only which direction the money flowed. One thing that I was going to do as a promotional thing with my company (which will be a CLEC but provide service by way of VoIP) was to offer incentives for using it. Free lines, other such goodies. I was just curious if they were paying people to route calls through them or if they were charging people for inbound traffic (which seems ... incorrect).

[datarax]

Originally Posted by trixter

I didnt want to know the rate (or anything else covered by the NDA) only which direction the money flowed. One thing that I was going to do as a promotional thing with my company (which will be a CLEC but provide service by way of VoIP) was to offer incentives for using it. Free lines, other such goodies. I was just curious if they were paying people to route calls through them or if they were charging people for inbound traffic (which seems ... incorrect).

I know you didn't want to know the nda stuff. And, I thought you were being funny when you said did they pay me for taking the dids. They charge a low fixed fee for the did, really low. Then you pay about half of the outgoing rate for incoming calls.

When are you going to be up and running? Where is your gateway going to be? I like free lines and other such goodies. :lol: